Interview by Rachel Jablonski
Intelligent, inquisitive, introspective… these attributes radiated from Canadian musician Devin Townsend of Strapping Young Lad fame as we spoke. Ki, the first in a series of four albums all to come out later this year, is a wonderful undertaking that Devin seemed most eager to discuss. Busy working on the next record in the series, Devin took the time to speak with me about the last three years of his life since his last solo release, Ziltoid The Omniscient, the motivations behind his latest projects, and his near future endeavors.
Rachel: Ki is the first of four albums in a series by the Devin Townsend Project. Each album will consist of a different collection of session musicians. How did you choose musicians for these albums? Were they people you knew or did you approach them individually without a prior relationship?
Devin: Some of both I guess. I tend to find in my musical world people end up appearing and I’m pretty good at being able to discern right away whether or not they are going to be appropriate based on their personality. I think that the world is full of really, really good musicians, but that’s not necessarily my motivation for having people involved. It’s more how they contribute to the scene as a person. I could definitely do any of these records just sitting by myself in front of a computer and I think what makes these records interesting, not only for me, but for a listener, is to kind of know about that depth of the personalities that are in it. Each theme on each one of these records requires a different sort of folk, right? Like Ki was definitely the meeting of one world with another and so the people that it involved were definitely from a different world and how the record ended up evolving and the energy that the record ended up having I think was definitely contributed to by the personalities that were involved. Same with this next record. The next record is a very specific group of people and I think I’m in a position that I’m able to make records and so with that I just choose to make each one of them an event for me personally. And then when the record is done I can listen back to it and say ok well I’m really glad that we went through this, we went through this group of people and we had these experiences, and I changed as a result of these people and vice versa. And then when I listen back to the record it just offers me a depth to it that wouldn’t be there if it was just me and a drum machine.
Rachel: All right, cool. So for Ki did you know these guys right off? You knew your keyboardist, is that it?
Devin: I knew the keyboard player. The bass player I’d had social interaction with, but nothing on a musical level. The drummer, I just met him at a blues club up north and he was just such a character, you know, he’s an older cat and plays really heavy and I thought I really need a combination of these energies. The bass player was just the most solid dude. Every time I went to the music store he was the guy in the bass department and there was never anything between us that was anything other than just civil, right? A lot of times you can really judge what a person is going to be able bring to the table musically by the way they treat strangers. He was just a solid dude so that’s why I involved him. I just thought for the bass of this record I wanted something solid and that was him.
Rachel: There’s a woman that sings on a couple of tracks on Ki. Who is that and do you plan on continuing vocal diversity on these albums?
Devin: Oh yeah. Her name is Ché Dorval and she was a friend of the keyboard player. Yeah I’ll definitely be continuing my musical relationship with her, she has a great voice. On this second record there will be a lady from Holland that used to sing in a band called The Gathering years ago. So I mean I definitely like the idea of male and female voices, it makes a lot of sense to me in terms of what I’m trying to get across musically. Anneke who is going to be singing on the second record, she’s about the same age as all of us – everyone on this second record, we’re all heading towards 40 and I think that with that in mind it’s good to be able to have a lot of people that can relate to that age involved with it. So this second record definitely has a lot to do with the period of life that we’re gazing into. And again it just comes back to who’s right for the project. It doesn’t mean that somebody else couldn’t do the other projects; it just comes down to the personalities – why would you be involved in this project? A lot of times I don’t even realize how appropriate it is until I start hanging out with somebody and I’m like yeah! I think that there’s no real magic to that either. It’s just in your interactions with people if you can ascertain in the first couple minutes whether or not they’re an asshole there is a good chance you will be able to work together.
Rachel: I really like the sound of you two singing together.
Devin: Yeah, so do I. I enjoy singing of course, but I think ultimately what I want to do is I want to make music that has lots of people singing on it. I’d love to be a voice on that, but for me singing doesn’t give me enough time to play guitar.
Rachel: What is the overall theme of Ki and what is the theme of the entire album series? Do they all relate thematically?
Devin: Yeah, loosely. I mean I definitely didn’t set out to make a Darkside of the Moon or an Operation: Mindcrime type of concept record. The thing with me is I’m not really a great business man when it comes to music. I can’t write a song for, I don’t know, Pink or something or Christina Aguilera. There’s no way I could do that, it would just be an abomination. So I just write what I do and the way I write is that music just kind of presents itself according to what my frame of mind is over the time that I have the guitar in my hands. There may be some emotional event or psychological event in my life, it could be anything like moving into a new house, and during that time there’s a series of riffs that I’m working on and then from that point on every time I play that riff it reminds me of that. So when I go to write a record I just draw on the influences of the time and then in a way it kind of documents it and these four records are no different. In a lot of ways these four records are just the last three years of my life. I quit smoking pot, I quit drinking, we had a kid, lots of life things, right? The music just ended up evolving based on that and so now in order for me to make room in my head for the next series of music I just kind of need to get this stuff out. So the theme I guess is loosely based on that period of personal change, but at the same time there’s no message or anything. That’s what was going on while I was writing it and the way that I create music is invested in that process.
Rachel: Cool, do you have a son or a daughter?
Devin: We have a son.
Rachel: Do you involve him in your music at all? Like as far as does he sit and watch you play guitar and such?
Devin: No, he likes trucks. [laugh]
Rachel: [laugh] Have you finished work on the next albums? When can we expect each to be released?
Devin: Um, I haven’t finished the work on the rest yet, no. They should be released hopefully by the end of the year. I’m right in the middle of the second record now. And, you know, I’m just going to keep pounding it until December and hopefully all the records will be out and we can put out a box set of it next year and then I can move on to phase nine or whatever.
Rachel: [laugh] The next record is a pop-like album, correct?
Devin: Yeah, that’s what it started as, but it has just ended up being a totally crushing metal record with big choruses. [laugh] I mean I wanted to write a pop record and I wrote a pop chorus and then all of the sudden I tried to write another and I was like, "I don’t want to write this shit," you know what I mean? It’s like no one’s going to buy it any way. I mean my reality scheme as a musician is that I’m a 40 year old dude with bad teeth and no hair, right? I’m not going to be a pop star any time soon so I just have to be honest with what I do, what is it that I want to do? Do you really want to write shitty pop music and try to sell it to a bunch of people that you don’t like? Or do you want to just do what comes naturally? And do I like choruses? Hell yeah! I like choruses and I like pop melodies so to speak, but the more I tried doing it the more I realized that how I really wanted to frame all of those choruses was crushing.
Rachel: Yeah, that’s funny. Speaking of your hair, I saw on your Myspace page that it appears you have shaved your head. How long ago did you do that and why did you decide to?
Devin: About two years ago and there are many reasons. I think I had a lot tied up in that hair. To a lot of people that was kind of my identity for awhile – oh that crazy looking guy! Then all the sudden I quit smoking weed and I’m like oh wait maybe I’m not crazy, maybe I was just super high. And so I wanted to kind of be able to say even by the way I look that I’m an adult now. That whole hair, I really took it down to the reason why I kept it for so long and I think it was just me saying “I’m bald, I’m ugly, fuck you.” But I think when you get to the point where that’s not really the most important thing in your life and it’s just for "fuck you, I’m ugly?" I mean it’s like then you shave your head and you’re like I’m a normal looking dude. If that’s your image and you’re trying to change your world, it just doesn’t seem appropriate. Plus my pillowcase was translucent at night that shit was so dirty.
Rachel: [laugh] I think you look good with the shaved head.
Devin: Well thank you, yeah so do I. I think I look better at least. It’s like before I became a character, right? It’s kind of hard to go into the bank and asking for a loan when you look like that.
Rachel: [laugh] It’s been said that Deconstruction will be some of your heaviest music. What makes it so?
Devin: Because the whole idea of Deconstruction is deconstructing why we’re attached to heavy music. I put out Ki and people want to listen to it and it’s like this is a really good record. But there’s a whole network of people that are like, "No no no no no! We only want heavy music, we only want chaotic music, we only want devilish, horrible, destructive music" and I’m like well why? I’ll do it for you, but just tell me why first. "Because we love it, because we love it." Why do you love it? Ya know? "Fuck the world, fuck the world, fuck everything man, only heavy, only metal" and I’m like ok, I’ll tell you what I’ll make you that record, but I’m going to sing about why we’re liking this music. Honestly, at the root of it, I think humans are really terrified and I think a lot of people who really love heavy music love it because it’s a way for them to protect themselves. If you put this thing forward and are like "I’m going to scare people with my music", then no one’s going to get to the root of the fact that maybe it’s just you that are terrified and that’s your way of protecting yourself, that’s your defense mechanism. It’s one thing to say, "Oh I’m mad at God", but maybe you’re really just mad at your father, you know? And I think that all these themes... that’s the thing that’s really interesting to me about heavy music now it’s like yes I love heavy music absolutely, but man to think that’s the only thing that I’m able to offer and that’s the only thing that certain people are willing to accept from me? You know, it’s not like I’m pissed off about it, but it’s kind of like are you sure you really want to know why you really like this with the exclusion of everything else?
Rachel: Well I hope that they realize with Ki how diverse you really are. It’s just amazing.
Devin: Some people do, but I guess the thing is that man I just get tons of emails from people saying, "Fuck that shit man play Strapping, play crushing music" and I’m like yeah man I can do that for sure, but that’s one spoke in the emotional reel and to focus on that... it’s like waking up in the morning and having steak with steak for lunch and steak for afternoon snack and steak for dinner and then soon you say you know what man? For breakfast this morning I’d just love a bowl of cereal and they respond, "You’re a fag aren’t you." [laugh] You know? It’s like no dude I really don’t feel like steak right now, I don’t know what to tell you. Don’t get me wrong I love a good meal, but it just seems ridiculous to me that that’s all you eat. And so I guess the thing is that I put out Ki and it’s something that I really think is great and I really love it and people that are maybe a little older appreciate it for what it is, but there is a whole faction of people that are like, "I hate this record, it’s boring, we want you to be something that you are no longer and until you can be something that you are no longer, then we’re not only not going to support you, but we’re going to talk shit about you." And I’m like ok that’s fine I’ll do a record for you but just so you know what it’s about is that. [laugh]
Rachel: Right, they obviously do not get this album then because it is anything but boring.
Devin: Yeah, I appreciate that. I don’t think it’s that mellow either, you know? But I think the thing is the whole idea with Deconstruction and Addicted is that you’re addicted to this pain, addicted to your own guilt, you’re addicted to your own whatever, and as far as I’m concerned an addiction is an addiction. Addicted to chaos, addicted to stimulus, you know? It’s like a lot of folks with music are like they don’t want to think about it because soon it gets too quiet and all of the sudden they start thinking, right? And thinking’s not good, it’s like a barrage of let’s have eight energy drinks in the morning, let’s have nine double cheeseburgers throughout the day, let’s listening to nothing but screaming on the stereo. I mean what does that say? You can say, "Oh it’s just what I like." Yeah sure, I appreciate that, but why do you like it? It’s not that I don’t like it, it’s just tell me why you like it. And "I don’t know" is not a good enough answer as far as I’m concerned because apparently I have to be held accountable for everything I say. [laugh] So at this point I’m like I’ll do it for you, sure. And it’s funny because I start writing the Deconstruction stuff and I get these people around me that are just like, "Yeah yeah yeah! Yeah yeah yeah! Yeah yeah yeah!" And it’s so funny. I just think to myself I’m like, "Fuck, it’s like I’m surrounded by a bunch of kids," you know? And it’s like sure, I like it too, but the whole point of Deconstruction is not "right on man, fuck the world," it’s more like tear it down man, tear it down why do you want to hear this chaos?
Rachel: So have you ever got answers or are you just speculating in the album then?
Devin: Oh I have my own answers. I mean it’s based on me, the reason why I’m doing it is because I had the same questions about myself. I’ve spent year and years and years doing nothing but heavy music and that’s all I wanted to listen to; the heavier the better. I think that the answers that I’ve come to are like hey man I’m getting older, you know?
Rachel: So even when you were younger you didn’t slip in some Phil Collins or Radiohead or something?
Devin: I did, but I’d always do it quietly, I wouldn’t let anybody know. I think that as well has something to do with age and this process, the theme that we have been talking about, the theme is what happened that allowed me to kind of come to these realizations on my own. Because for years all I wanted to do was make the most complicated music ever – Infinity or Alien or something. I would never just sit down and play some acoustic guitar. I’m thinking no no no no because I have to be this certain character. And then when I started saying why do you have to be that character? Why do you need to look the way you do? That hair hurts and smells disgusting, why do you need people to think of you as this musical powerhouse? Why? And I’m thinking because maybe I’m actually not, maybe I’m not crazy, and if I’m making my living off of people thinking I’m crazy, then there’s no way that I’ll be able to get away from it. And then what I came to the conclusion of in the Deconstruction record while I was writing it is at the end I’m just like, "Now I’ve got a headache." It’s like why did you do that? Why did you give yourself a headache? I mean I can take it in doses absolutely, but I think the thing is that at the exclusion of everything else it is unhealthy… for me. And so in the future I want to be able to use that element of what I do but only as a dynamic. To say that I don’t’ like heavy music and chaotic music is absurd. I love it! But that by itself it just gives me a headache.
Rachel: You seem to be at a point of deep reflection in your life, analyzing the past in order to understand the future. What have you learned in doing this and have you come to terms with the past? What do you foresee now in the future?
Devin: I’ve totally come to terms with the past. You’re accountable for everything you do, you know? And it’s like you can’t really regret anything you’ve done either no matter how fucked up because it’s like ultimately you can’t change it so regretting it is a waste of energy.
Rachel: And it shapes you, you wouldn’t be where you are today without it.
Devin: Totally, totally, so in a lot of ways I’m thankful, right? But I think in terms of it being a time of deep reflection… ultimately that’s not really the goal, it’s kind of just who I am. I just reflect on things and as a musician I tend to do it publically. I think interviews allow me to explain it. It’s funny because a lot of folks ask, "Why do you spend so much time thinking about this stuff?" And I think to myself, I’m just trying to get my music to a place where it’s more reachable to folks. I think I’ve got music that can really contribute to people’s lives and I think in order for it to be a benefit for people I definitely have to know my motivations for doing it. In the past I haven’t always been able to explain. People ask why did you do that. Well, I have no idea. And now I’m asking myself well why did you do it? Tear it apart, figure out why you like it. Who knows what’s going to happen at the end of this? I might realize I like it because that’s just who I am and then continue doing it. Or I might realize I like it because I was terrified and then stop doing it. I guess the thing is I have to know in order to continue so that’s why the process exists apparently.
Rachel: So you’re still in process?
Devin: Oh yeah, shit. Totally, absolutely.
Rachel: For the future you just foresee figuring it out and see where things lead?
Devin: Yeah, I mean I actually I haven’t thought too much about anything past the next two weeks in all honesty.
Rachel: [laugh] After all of the albums are done you will be touring selected shows throughout the world. What will you base your selections on?
Devin: In all honesty because I’m so single minded when it comes to what I’m doing, I’ll think about it when I think about it and at this point I just know that this is a tentative idea to play some shows eventually. But how, where, and with who is up in the air at this point.
Rachel: Well then this question is somewhat irrelevant, but when you do tour, will you strictly stick to the new material or will you throw in previous work?
Devin: Um…. no idea. It could make sense either way at this point so we’ll see.
Rachel: Have you been working producing / mastering etc for any other bands lately?
Devin: Not lately. I did a couple bands last year. I did a Canadian band and a whole slew of American bands last year. It’s cool, it taught me a lot. Producing is a real hard job and a lot of times you have to really teach people, the whole process is teaching people. I can do that for a few hours a day, I can teach people for like eight hours a day, but once it starts becoming like twelve hours a day you end up having to babysit as well. I just end up going you know what man I don’t have time for this. The drummer and the bass player don’t like each other and the guy’s got relationship problems and the singer’s drunk and just all this shit and then me I’m just kind of in the middle going ok you don’t drink and maybe you should go talk to your girlfriend and maybe you and you should go outside and beat each other up and then we can come back in and play the drummer’s song. Whatever, right? I just want to make music and I’m not really great at social interaction so I just found by the end of it I was more drained by doing production than anything else. Because I’m just like man what a drag. I really, really have no desire to be a therapist. If someone needs a therapist I suggest they don’t come to me.
Rachel: [laugh] I can see needing a dynamic that you were talking about with your musicians in being a producer and that would be hard to get.
Devin: Yeah absolutely, specifically in terms of how deep I tend to actually go in terms of other people’s music. I’m not saying it’s incredibly deep, but it’s just how deep I personally go always is down to like, "Well why’d you do that? Why did you write this song?" I had a Christian band come in here and that was really hard for me and them because I was like, "Why? Why are you doing this?" And it just ended up like this crazy thing right because one of the answers just ends up being "Because." I don’t know what to do about that. Maybe I’m just not evolved enough and maybe I haven’t gotten the call, but I need to know why. For me, I’m always just why why why why why why why. And that’s just an example because I did a satanic band right before them and it was the same thing. I was just like, "Why? Tell me why?" And no one really had an answer except for "Because." I guess in terms of my own musical process, it doesn’t cut it for me. [laugh] So I guess it’s like this whole process with these four records is me just saying, "This is the because, this is why" and where things will go after that, who knows? I might end up making furniture.
Rachel: Well I really appreciate the trying to get people to think.
Devin: It’s not based on any sort of altruistic kind of mission, trust me. I’m just like it’s very hard for me to have a conversation with folks when there’s no… and I mean it’s not like I’m going up to my buddies and saying, "Why do you do this? Why why why why why?" It’s to people who are standing up and saying this is what I stand for. If someone doesn’t stand for anything I’ll be like that’s totally fine, you work at a pool and everything’s good, I don’t give a shit that makes a lot of sense to me. But if someone is going to say this is what I believe and I will die for it, I’ll ask why. It’s not that I’m challenging you; tell me why because I’d like to believe in something that passionately myself, right? So just tell me, please convince me. You know? I’m not talking about just religion, I’m not talking about Satanism or any religion, it’s anything. It’s PETA or whatever, just tell me WHY. And if somebody tells me why I’m like cool, now I understand and I either agree or I don’t, but I just need to know why so that I can relate to them. And that all just comes back to my own music because I’ve just spent so much time in the past saying I don’t know, just because, I don’t know. So the past couple of years I’m like I really want to make heavy music, I want to make the heaviest music of all time, but I need to answer my own questions I need to know why I want to do this.
Rachel: Right, it sounds like in the past it was almost more like people wanted you to do it so you did it.
Devin: Exactly, exactly. So it’s like coming to these conclusions has been pretty good for me actually.
Rachel: Cool, well that’s all I have is there anything else you want to talk about?
Devin: No, I’m good. Have a great day and thanks for the interview.
Rachel: You too! Thank you so much and I look forward to the rest of your stuff.